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Mrs. Elizabeth ROSE

Mrs. Elizabeth ROSE

Female 1655 - 1725  (~ 79 years)    Has 89 ancestors and 300 descendants in this family tree.

 Set As Default Person    

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  • Name Elizabeth ROSE 
    Prefix Mrs. 
    Relationshipwith Teresa Ann GOATHAM
    Born Between 1646 and 1655 
    • Had a son born in 1696, so cannot have been born before 1646; mentioned in the will written by her father in 1655 so born by then.
      ** I may show the wrong mother for Elizabeth - see research notes at the bottom of the page **
    Gender Female 
    Died Oct 1725  Churchstow, Devon, England See the place on a map and other information about it - if available (many more will be in time); also all individuals with events at this location 
    • (assumed from burial)
    Buried 27 Oct 1725  St. Mary’s Church, Churchstow, Devon, England See the place on a map and other information about it - if available (many more will be in time); also all individuals with events at this location 
    • From PR entry (image on FMP, viewed 29 Jan 2016)
      "Mrs Eliz: Bastard was Buried October the 27" - under heading '1725'
    • (Research):Was Elizabeth's mother a Brodrepp?
      The memorial stone to Elizabeth née Henley, this Elizabeth's father's first wife shows she had had 4 daughters and 6 sons, enough for all the children of Richard that I know of to be hers. 
      However, things don't add up if I assign them all to her.
      If this Elizabeth, Elizabeth Rose, was the daughter of Elizabeth Henley she would be too old to be the mother of Sampson Bastard.
      The most likely explanation is that this Elizabeth, Elizabeth Bastard née Rose, was the daughter of Richard by a subsequent wife.

      Richard does not mention a living wife in his will. His first wife died when she was aged only 35 and Richard was probably also quite young, and so would have been likely to remarry. The Alumni oxonienses entry for the Thomas I believe was his son indicates that Thomas was born about 1650, further evidence for Richard marrying again.

      An alternative explanation would be that I am missing a generation (i.e. muddling events from two). Having had 10 children by 1636 it was likely the first was born about 1620. If an older child were another Richard there would be time for him to have married and had a son in 1650.

      The will of the Richard who died about 1658 names a number of children, consistent with those siblings mentioned in the wills of Anne and Richard Rose, sister and brother of this Elizabeth. Despite this if I am missing a generation I think that the death is of the older Richard. He describes Thomas as his youngest son and if the will were that of a son of Richard it is unlikley he would have had so many sons by 1650.
      It would not be that unusual for the names used in two successive generations to be very similar, so a match on the names and yet them not to be the siblings of Elizabeth is not implausible.

      Although I have yet to study the surviving PRs and BTs as much as possible, I do think the lack of evidence of another generation makes a second wife of the Richard who married Elizabeth Henley the more likely explanation.

      But what was her name?
      In her father's will he mentions two 'brothers' of his, Christopher and John Brodrepp. If they were full brothers of Richard they could be expected to share his surname, Rose. A change is not impossible, but not a common event. The term 'brothers', though, can means several things. They could be half-brothers, or at this time the term was often used for brothers-in-law. Half-brothers seems unlikely. If they were born to Richard's mother before her marriage to his father John Roze, we might expect John to have mentioned them in his will. Although this would be likely it would not have been inevitable so this cannot be ruled out from this. However, a Richard Brodrepp who died about 1658 left a will mentioning two sons, John and Christopher. It seems highly probable that these were the same John and Christopher; it was a Somerset name coming to the area with the marriage of a Richard Brodrepp into the Mapperton 'Morgan' family (I think) only in the early C17th, so it would be a bit of a coincidence if there were 2 pairs of brothers with the same names in the area. With their father only dying about 1658 they could not have been sons of Faith by a marriage before she married John Roze. With a daughter-in-law born about 1601, Faith would most likely have been too old to have more children after her husband John Roze died in 1627.
      Consequently, it seems most likely that John and Christopher Brodrepp were brothers of Richard Rose through being brothers of his wife - and so she was probably also a Brodrepp. It is noticeable, though, that no daughter is mentioned in the will of the Brodrepp brothers' father Richard. Richard Rose's will suggests she had died by the time Richard Brodrepp wrote his will, which could be the reason; by no means all grandchildren are mentioned in wills. Alternatively, she could have been a half-sister of the Brodrepp brothers.

      Exploration of the surviving PRs will hopefully clarify the situation.
    Person ID I20014  All | Teresa's direct ancestors
    Last Modified 25 Sep 2018 

    Father Richard ROSE,   b. Abt 1600,   d. Abt 1658, Wootton Fitzpaine, Dorset, England See the place on a map and other information about it - if available (many more will be in time); also all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 58 years) 
    Mother Mary BRODREPP,   b. Est 1615,   d. Bef 1655, Wootton Fitzpaine, Dorset, England See the place on a map and other information about it - if available (many more will be in time); also all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 39 years) 
    Married Aft 1636 
    • I am confident that Richard reamarried after his first wife had died, and that he married a Brodrepp, the sister of Christopher and John. Hutchins shows the marriage and names Richard's wife as Mary (though see below).

      It is interesting to note from Richard Rose's will that when he died Morganhayes was his; I suspect that this may have passed to the Rose family as part of the marriage settlement when Richard Rose and Mary Brodrepp married.

      I am confident that my direct ancestor, his daughter Elizabeth, was not the daughter of his first wife.
      However, it is possible he remarried more than once after the death of his first wife, in which case I could have fused more than one person into this 'second' wife of Richard Rose.

      There is evidence that some at least of the offspring of Richard were with his Brodrepp wife: Anne expressed a wish in her will to be buried in Mapperton Church in 'my cozen Brodrips Isle' while Thomas' son Churchill is described as a kinsman in a Brodrepp will. That Richard's son Richard was probably a child of his Brodrepp wife is suggested by Richard junior's son Thomas in his will appointing Richard Brodrepp as a trustee for his grandchildren during their minority. Mary Rose is described as a cousin in the will of Christopher Brodrepp's daughter Mary.

      That just leaves Dorothy and, unfortunately, my ancestor Elizabeth, the latter being, of course, the one whose mother I am keenest to be reasonably certain about.

      The name of the Brodrepp that Richard Rose married is shown in Hutchins as Mary, although it seems clear that he has attached her in the wrong place, showing her as daughter rather than sister of Christopher Brodrepp. Although Christopher did have sons Christopher and John (as named as brothers in Richard Rose's will), if Richard had married Christopher senior's daughter Mary the marriage would have been too late for them to have the children as on the tree here. In addition, Christopher senior's daughter Mary died single, leaving a will with various relations named and relationships described from which it seems clear she was that Christopher's daughter.

      Hutchins also appears to have attached John married to Elizabeth Freke as a son of Christopher senior instead of a brother. Again, the dates don't work if it was John the son of Christopher senior who married Elizabeth.

      (Mary Brodrepp's grandmother was Anne Bampfield; Richard's first wife's mother names two Bampfields as friends and makes them executors of her will. These were Francis and Thomas, I think they must have been grandsons of Amias, brother of Anne and so second cousins of Mary. Amias was mentioned in more than one Morgan family document, suggesting that Anne, who was from a large family and probably not in close contact with all of her siblings, was close to Amias. Did this contact between the two families continue - was it through the Henley family's contact with the Bampfields that Richard came to know their cousin, Mary Brodrepp?)
    Children 6 children 
    Family ID F8397    |  Family Chart

    Family Bevill BASTARD,   b. Abt 1646, Gerston, West Alvington, Devon, England See the place on a map and other information about it - if available (many more will be in time); also all individuals with events at this location,   d. Jun 1720, Churchstow, Devon, England See the place on a map and other information about it - if available (many more will be in time); also all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 74 years) 
    Married Est 1674 
    • I suspect Bevill and Elizabeth married in about 1674. On 19 October that year Bevill, his brother William and Elizabeth were the 3 lives on a lease of land in Churchstow, as described in a draft licence to assign the lease after Bevill's death (catalogue entry). These arrangements were often made in preparation for marriage, and the lack of a child of Bevill and Elizabeth as one of the lives suggests this was one such.

      Although the earliest surviving Churchstow PR dates from 1543, there is a large gap in the C17th, from 1653 or 4 to 1694 for baptisms and marriages. At first when I could not find their marriage I thought that Bevill had probably married 'Elizabeth' in Churchstow and that gap in the PRs explained the lack of a record. Now knowing she was from Dorset, and a bit about the family, the most likely marriage place would be Wootton Fitzpaine. The marriage PRs there only survive from 1677 and BTs from 1731, so if they were married there the only hope of evidence is a marriage licence.

      Churchstow missing years probably include the baptisms of most of the children of Bevill and Elizabeth. I have looked at the surviving BTs but these cover only 5 of the missing years and neither their marriage nor a child's baptism is in those few surviving BTs.

      The lack of children named in a lease of 1682 suggests that any children born by then had not survived, or maybe were so young that the period of high mortality had not passed (I'm not sure if people took this into account when choosing the lives for leases),
      I have identified 5 children from this marriage, a son baptized in 1696, i.e. in the period for which the PRs do survive and 4 daughters, two named in a lease some 12 years earlier, the third left a bequest by her mother's brother Richard in a will written in 1708 and the 4th, Ann, from a combination of events. It seems highly likely that other children were born in the intervening years. One or two burials in Churchstow could be children of Bevill and Elizabeth (a William Bastard was buried 18 Aug 1698, Sarah 29 May 1699).
      Although I appear to show a 6th child, without a Christian name, she could be one of the children I do know of.
    Children 6 children 
    Last Modified 26 Oct 2016 
    Family ID F7836    |  Family Chart

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